Crossbeat interview with Rivers Cuomo - December 1996

Print interview with Rivers Cuomo
Publication	Crossbeat
Published	December 1996
Interviewer	Oguchi Masaki
Interviewee	Rivers Cuomo
Title	"Switching girls left and right made me feel like a total scumbag."
Sub-title	Panic in front of the concert venue! Rock's ultimate youth icon, Rivers, dove into the crowd! The man who can't find the woman of his dreams, no matter how hard he tries, reveals his true self in full.
Format	Print
Associated album	Pinkerton
Associated concert	Weezer concert: 10/22/1996 Weezer concert: 10/25/1996
References	See where this article is referenced on Weezerpedia

Translation for Weezerpedia by Windii Gitlord.

"Switching girls left and right made me feel like a total scumbag." Author: Oguchi Masaki (Crossbeat) Published: December 1996 "Switching girls left and right made me feel like a total scumbag." Interview: Oguchi Masaki Interpreter: Bryan Burton-Lewis Support: Nakayama Miki Photography: Ariga Mikio Rivers comes sprinting with lightning speed! It all began after the second Tokyo show. "Rivers finally meets Japanese fans!" Our magazine had planned to capture this moment, requesting a backstage photo together. The band readily agreed, and just as we were about to start shooting... It turned out Rivers had earlier mentioned, "I want to go somewhere with more fans, not just backstage." With that, he casually dashed out onto the famous "Hell Stairs" of Liquidroom — still bustling with excited fans streaming down — without a second thought! The swiftness of his escape (?) was just incredible. Photographer Ariga, myself, and the director in charge immediately gave chase. But in less than two minutes, he'd slipped through the crowd from the 7th floor and descended to the venue entrance, where fans were swirling. While we chased him in a daze, voices of astonishment and delight rang out from the orderly stream of descending fans: "Hey! It's Rivers! What's he doing here?" and "I touched him. ♥" Panting heavily, we finally reached the entrance to witness the scene depicted on the previous page... Though momentarily crushed in the crowd, Rivers wore the same somewhat strained smile as during his live shows, earnestly responding to the storm of autographs and handshakes thrust at him like a thousand-armed Avalokiteśvara. Though I was just as excited as everyone else, watching him from a distance, any thought of trying to control the situation vanished. I found myself thinking, "Well, this is Rivers Cuomo, isn't it?" and feeling a deep sense of understanding. No matter how you looked at it, it was impossible to communicate equally with every fan in this crushingly crowded state. Yet there he was, desperately trying to connect, sincere to the point of being almost painful. Suddenly, a line from "Across the Sea" came to mind: "Why are you so far away from me?" Did you finally understand that Japanese fans felt the same way? Even if our love exploded like this, you'd forgive us, right, Rivers? The interview took place before that day's show. Looking back now, it's funny how his outfit — a wool cardigan over a dark green plaid button-down shirt neatly tucked into corduroy pants — was essentially his stage costume. During the interview, he repeatedly used the phrase "rock star," aware he existed somewhere between longing and disillusionment. Yet the image was utterly mismatched. But you know, no matter how hard you try, you'll never be Dave Lee Roth. Because you can't fake that rock star smile, can you? That slow, frame-by-frame break of his smile, so far removed from that ideal — I doubt I'll ever forget it. Oguchi Masaki: The thing is, the editorial department got a letter from the girl who inspired "Across the Sea"... Rivers: Huh, really? Oguchi: Yeah. And the content really impressed me. She wrote that she'd pay 3% of the publisher's profits. It's a very Weezer, or rather Rivers-like story. Rivers: Yeah, I'm sure if you actually read the letter she sent and listened to that song, you'd understand... The opening lyrics were basically written by her. So I felt she deserved a share of the profits too. Oguchi: Ah, well, that's definitely an anecdote only you would experience. Most artists wouldn't go that far. Rivers: I was just casually reading her letter, but the words really struck a chord. Then a melody that matched the words in the letter just popped into my head. I liked that melody, and I thought, 'I gotta use this.' Yeah, the lyrics are basically what she wrote. Oguchi: ...That's awfully honest of you. I finally got to see Weezer's gig yesterday, and it was the first time I'd ever experienced a live show where the whole venue got that hyped up without the frontman hyping the crowd at all. Rivers: ...Hmm, phew... I'm such a dork, huh? Oguchi: What are you saying? (laughs) I didn't want to hear such a pathetic reaction. I was thinking it really comes down to the power of the songs themselves. Rivers: The truth is... ummm... I think... hmm... I dunno (laughs). Oguchi: Us Japanese don't usually speak English. But at yesterday's show, the whole crowd sang along to every song from start to finish, right? Seeing that scene, didn't you feel a bit of culture shock? Rivers: ...I was really surprised seeing the audience singing along. Because... we were in Australia right before coming to Japan, and even though that's a country where people speak English daily, the audience didn't know the lyrics. But here in Japan, everyone in the venue knows our lyrics. Japanese fans have this deep interest in Weezer as a band, in Weezer's music, and even in the particulars of Weezer's lyrics. It feels like everyone really did their homework on us. In other countries with different cultural backgrounds, it's more like, 'Don't sweat the details'... Oguchi: That just shows how much Japanese fans were longing for Weezer. You might not have seen much of Japan yet, but what's your impression of the country so far? Rivers: ...I'm just completely overwhelmed. I've been on the go nonstop since arriving in Japan, so I haven't had time to think. It'll probably take two or three weeks to calm down and process everything. These last couple of days have been a wild experience. Oguchi: Given how much you've used Japan as a motif, I wonder if you'd ever consider settling down here for a while? Rivers: I might feel like it someday, but I doubt I could handle it. Because I'm... scared of earthquakes (laughs). Oguchi: Hahaha. But this hotel is a high-rise with earthquake-resistant construction, so you're safe. Rivers: Yeah, I know that (laughs). Oguchi: Now, about your new work Pinkerton, which you called "my diary." The ten love stories told here all seem to end up in a mess, right? And they never have a happy ending. Is that just how it turns out unintentionally? Rivers: ...Uhhh... yeah, they always end up in a mess (laughs). Oguchi: That was an incredibly long pause (laugh). You don't actually have some kind of desire for romantic self-destruction, do you? Rivers: No, no (laughs). Sure, I might get all giddy and positive when I fall for a girl and start dating her, but that kind of thing doesn't really happen much in real life. Well, even if you start a relationship with positive feelings, it usually ends up tragic. That's true for you, and it's true for everyone else too, right? Oguchi: Oof, w-well, I guess so (wry smile). Rivers: Yeah, it's probably the same for everyone (laughs). Oguchi: But in your case, compared to others, I felt like your "Look how much I want you! I'm this intense!" vibe might be too overwhelming, creating a bigger rift between you and the girl. I mean, you're basically dumping your entire emotional state into this album. Rivers: Ultimately, the image of the person you're fantasizing about and the person you're actually dating end up being different. That's when the real person starts getting in the way. Phew... (sighs deeply) Oguchi: Like it's really obvious in "Falling for You," there were times you couldn't put your feelings into words and kept them bottled up inside, right? Rivers: You mean in real life? Oguchi: Of course. Like situations where you think, "If only I'd just blurted out 'I like you!' back then!" Rivers: I couldn't talk to the girl I liked. Yeah, like you said, that's something I regret (laughs). I'd get so infatuated with someone on my own that I couldn't even speak to them. This feeling, it frustrates me too. But... Oguchi: But...? Rivers: But on the other hand, once I start dating someone, I usually end up spilling every single feeling I have without holding back (laughs). So in extreme cases, maybe I lay myself too bare with the girls I date (wry smile). Oguchi: So once you're close to someone, you just blast them with your emotional laser beams. Rivers: Yeah (laughs). Oguchi: This is something I wanted to ask you about specifically. It's about the opening track, "Tired of Sex." What was the background behind that shocking confession about "craving one-night stands"? Rivers: That's a true story. Oguchi: I heard that the other day (laughs). Rivers: Hmm, I exaggerated it a bit in the song. I wrote that track back when I was still living in LA. We hadn't signed a record deal yet, but we were starting to get famous. Soon enough, you know, these groupies started following Weezer around. Naturally, I... yeah, I thought, 'Hell no, I'm not gonna pass up this chance,' and I went for it. The chance to sleep with a different girl every night, you know? Oguchi: So when you kept talking about being a rock star, that was part of it? Rivers: Yeah. The whole swapping girls thing. That was the rock star I dreamed of being. Meaning, I aimed to be a heavy metal rock star. That dream first came true during my LA days. I just poured all that feeling into it." Oguchi: (laughs). Rivers: Then... I felt this overwhelming guilt, like I was some kind of atrocious fiend (strained laugh). And that's when I wrote that song. Oguchi: Um, and after that, did you have any more experiences like that...? Rivers: Hmph, since then, I haven't had a relationship with any girl at all." Oguchi: Geez, really? It must have cast a deep shadow over your heart. So that was definitely a turning point that changed your view of women, and ultimately your view of love. Rivers: Yeah. Basically, all my songs are written during turning points. For example, I can go months without writing a single song, but then something happens that makes me realize I need to grow up more, or think more deeply. Then I write a song, and I change. Oguchi: I think this is pretty much the same in America and Japan, but these days, casual relationships where people enjoy sex without much commitment aren't exactly rare. Even though you've been badly hurt, how does "casual sex" look to you, someone who suddenly embraced it? Rivers: I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question. Oguchi: Why not? Rivers: Lately, I've been constantly thinking about how to become a person of morals. What's good, what's bad, what's right, what's wrong... I haven't found the answers yet, so I can't answer this question. It's still a huge, huge challenge in my life. The only thing I can say is that when I wrote this song, I felt the complete opposite of how I feel now. Oguchi: So your current mental state isn't as aggressive as it was back then, meaning you don't feel like going out and doing things with girls? Rivers: Huh? What do you mean? (Face suddenly flushes) Oguchi: I mean... haven't you become disillusioned with relationships between men and women themselves? Rivers: ...Hmm, well, you know, right now I feel stronger than ever that I want to 'do all kinds of things with girls.' If I could, I'd go out every night and get a different girl like I did back then (laughs). But like I keep saying, I'm still tormented by that same overwhelming guilt I felt back then, and I can't even understand why. I mean, I didn't do anything wrong, yet I feel this guilt... It must be something really deep inside. Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a perfect rock star like Dave Lee Roth. Oguchi: (laughs). But that's what makes Rivers, Rivers, right? Rivers: (laughs) Oguchi: That something lingering deep inside — I think that's precisely the ordinary human sense you always carry in your heart. Rivers: I have all these pet theories. I don't know how to answer precisely... but maybe it has to do with how I was raised. My mother is a very strong woman who taught me to respect women. So I think I feel deep guilt when I do anything that might hurt a woman. Oguchi: Sounds a bit different from a typical upbringing. Rivers: I grew up in a Hindu ashram — a community where ascetics live together. It was a quiet, unchanging environment, the kind where trainee monks reside. Oguchi: There's a line from "Across the Sea" that probably stems from that: "At ten, I shaved my head and tried to be a monk." Rivers: Oh, yeah. I definitely remember telling my mom when I was ten, 'I'm ready to shave my head and become a monk.' Oguchi: Right after that, you sing, "I thought the older women would like me if I did." Is it fair to say that act was your first conscious awareness of women? Rivers: All the adults there had shaved heads, so I naturally thought I should too. Looking back now, I find it utterly baffling why I wanted to become a monk at just ten years old. Well, as you say, I suppose I wanted the older women at the ashram, including my mother, to accept me. Oguchi: So, what kind of kid were you outwardly? Your time at Harvard speaks to your intelligence, but at the same time, you were aiming to be a rock star from age 12, right? Wasn't there any conflict between "the studious me" and "the me who wanted to be a rock star"? Rivers: Actually, by the time I got to high school, I'd completely lost interest in studying. All I wanted to be was a musician. Oguchi: Oh wow. Rivers: ...It was a pretty frustrating situation. I knew I could be a straight-A student if I tried, but I just didn't have the motivation to actually study. I felt unsatisfied. Oguchi: I totally thought you were this serious, studious kid at school who'd switch personas and become a total band geek once you got home. Rivers: Nope. I was 100% disinterested in schoolwork. Oguchi: So, adolescence is usually when most people experience their first romance. Seeing how clueless you are about relationships, I wondered if maybe those experiences weighed heavily on you back then. Rivers: ...Well, actually, the first time I seriously dated a girl was right after high school graduation. That girl still kind of haunts me... or rather, she's like a ghost following me around (laughs). ...I've had two relationships like that so far. Oguchi: That's the experience you confessed about in "Why Bother?," right? Rivers: (laughs) Oguchi: In our last magazine interview, you said, "Pursuing love is what drives my music." Well, it doesn't have to be love — it could be a dream. For you, is the process of pursuing something more important than the result? Rivers: Yeah. For me, whatever dream becomes reality ends up disappointing me. For example, being a rock star was something I'd aspired to since I was 12, and it was the only dream I had. I worked really hard for it. After 12 years, it finally happened, but it wasn't all that great. I still have the same problems... I don't feel like I'm in heaven right now. So I figure it's time to move on to a new dream. Oguchi: (laughs) Have you found that new dream yet? Rivers: Yeah... I have. 'I'm going to Harvard for sure!' That was it (laughs). But once that became reality too... it wasn't as significant as I thought. Now I need to find an even bigger dream (laughs). Oguchi: How about "Aim for Dave Lee Roth!"? (laughs) Rivers: I think staying a perfect rock star is a dream for the distant future... so I guess women will always decide my life. Oguchi: So that's how it always ends up (laughs). Rivers: Because for me, women are like that carrot dangled in front of me — a peaceful answer that contradicts my current reality. Oguchi: So fundamentally, what you seek from women is finding that "peaceful answer." Rivers: I want to be saved. Oguchi: Does that mean liberation from loneliness? Or sharing peace through being together? Rivers: ...I think both are connected. Anyway, what I want is salvation. I don't think it has to be a good thing or healthy. But when I look at myself objectively, the state I'm waiting for is one where I want someone to save me." Oguchi: So that feeling swells up and makes you constantly seek women. Rivers: ...Well, I think it's driven by a more fundamental desire than that. Namely... that instinctive craving for sex. My desire for sex seems pretty strong, apparently (embarrassed laugh). Oguchi: But if you want to break out of loneliness, it doesn't have to be women, right? Male friends could distract you too. Rivers: ...I don't know why, but the emptiness I feel can only be filled by a woman. Oguchi: Huh. Do you have any male friends? Rivers: Plenty (firmly). I've got a lot of great buddies. But... I don't have a single great female friend (laughs). Oguchi: So even though your dream of being a rock star came true with your success, you still feel like your personal life isn't fulfilled? Rivers: I barely have a personal life (laughs). Right now, most of my life is taken up by band activities. Oguchi: So your life is all about the band. Rivers: Well, even so, the division is perfect. Meaning, for six months of the year, I'm just a regular person going to college, and the other six months, I'm a rock star. Oguchi: That might work now, but aren't you worried that becoming more famous in the near future might threaten your private life? Rivers: I can't say for sure, but I can't really picture myself becoming that famous. I don't flaunt things like 'Look what I'm doing!' or brag to people or try to draw attention. I'm a boring guy, so I don't get attention anyway. ...So even when I'm at university, nobody knows who I am. Even the guy wearing a Weezer T-shirt doesn't notice me. I'm confident I can keep my life separate. Oguchi: There was that recent incident where Björk got a bomb sent by a paranoid fan... Rivers: I heard about Björk, but she's way more famous than me! Honestly, earthquakes scare me way more than that (laughs). Oguchi: If only anyone could be that confident in the games of romance. Rivers: Heh heh heh (strained laugh), well, I think... all the exploring I've done so far has been about figuring out my own essence. I believe a man's essence is deeply intertwined with women sexually. So the more you know about someone, the more you discover, the more you connect with them, the deeper you become entangled with the essence of women. Oguchi: You said the album starts by denying that male essence, right? Rivers: Yeah. That's covered pretty thoroughly in 'Tired of Sex'... like, I don't want to sleep with women anymore / I'm not getting married / Why are you bothering me? / I don't want to date anyone / Just leave me alone... That kind of vibe. But then I did a complete 180 after that (wry smile). Oguchi: Hearing all this, I started thinking the perfect woman you seek is someone who can fully embrace the romantic ideals you've built in your head. Rivers: Hmm, no, that's not it. What I want above all is someone who can take care of me and give me peace of mind. I mean, I can't even understand myself 100%, so expecting that from a woman is just unrealistic, right? Oguchi: Putting it that way, you're probably right (laughs). Well then, please keep searching hard for that "woman who takes care of you and gives you peace." Rivers: But if I actually find her, I won't be able to write songs anymore (laughs). Oguchi: Then next time, why not write about the "hardships of married life"? Rivers: All right. That's what I'll do (laughs). October 22 / Tokyo, Liquidroom At that moment, they were the most beloved band in the world. Amidst the overflowing heat and concentrated stares filling the packed Liquidroom, it felt like the intensely shy Rivers Cuomo might just melt away. It was that kind of fiery live show. The sheer fact that one of the best bands around today released an album packed with Japan-related references, and a great one at that, kept our excitement and bonding levels skyrocketing. Yet, amidst the fervor generated by the crowd of Yamato Nadeshiko and Yamato Onoko who identified with Rivers, Weezer's power pop raged fiercely, refusing to be outdone. Through the crowd, glimpses of Rivers (he's small, so you rarely see him) swaying side to side, eyes downcast as he played his guitar, created a strange sight. He seemed utterly intimidated by the audience before him, like a child overwhelmed by the situation, panicking and falling into shock. Yet, ironically, that very aspect of him only fueled the crowd's excitement. His demeanor stood in stark contrast to the wild, provocative stage presence of Matt Sharp, the eccentric man with the seven-colored voice (man, I'd love to see that beer belly again with the Rentals and hear his lead vocals). Yet, it was clear Weezer's music was born from that small man's body. The set, starting with "Tired of," was one giant jump, headbang, and singalong festival from start to finish. The catharsis born from their starkly contrasting melodies, powerful beats, and perfectly crafted catchiness truly peaks at a live show. I'll admit, I always end up singing along when I hear Weezer, and this time I witnessed the fact that many others were doing the same. It's pretty rare to see a whole venue singing along to not just singles, but also album tracks and B-sides. Most concerts have a few songs where you think, "I wish they'd move on to the next one," but not once did that feeling arise that night. Honestly, I wanted them to play every single song they had. Songs from Pinkerton were great, of course, but above all, there was the joy of finally hearing "My Name Is," "No One Else," and "Surf Wax" after waiting two years (and hearing "Holiday" on the final day left no regrets). And the fact that everyone around me had cherished that album just as much, listening to it constantly and longing for this moment. At that time, Weezer was undoubtedly the most beloved band on earth. Hayashi Satoko October 25 / Tokyo, Club Quattro One "song for everyone" after another That indescribable, pleasantly exhausted feeling and satisfaction after it ended. I've seen countless bands over the years, but I can't recall a single live show in Japan where the stage and audience became so completely one, achieving such an ideal level of excitement. After all, it's only natural to be amazed when nearly half the crowd energetically sang along to almost every song without being asked—a scene hard to believe at first glance. It felt like there was an unspoken common understanding: this wasn't a crowd gathered to riot or see idolized stars, but people who rushed to the final show of their favorite band's first Japan tour, purely to hear the songs they loved. Faced with such an ideal audience, Weezer unleashed one super-pop, catchy "eternal adolescence" song after another – the "songs for everyone" that stick in your ears. The performance itself felt like a slightly rougher take on their studio-live style second album. But listening to this extraordinarily American energy and momentum, overflowing with dynamism, made the finer details seem irrelevant. This was possible because the melodies and songs themselves possess a charm that truly shines in a live setting. The way they gripped the audience's hearts and built the excitement as the set progressed was something no amount of calculation could achieve. As expected, the ultra-sensitive man, Rivers Cuomo, remained the world's gloomiest frontman, seemingly withdrawn into his own shell on stage. He wasn't a flashy performer, but the stark contrast with his bright, energetic songs created such an intense disparity that it transcended awkwardness and became funny – a truly rare character. His performance style was lethargic, swaying side to side with half-closed eyes, seemingly disconnected from the rhythm. Yet on this night, he suddenly started the set by shouting "Help me, Doraemon!" and then delivered his entire MC in incomprehensible Japanese like "I'm sick. Sorry," proving he wasn't lacking in hospitable spirit or enjoyment of the live show. He simply never smiled at the audience or acknowledged their cheers, embodying the stereotypical nerdy genius who doesn't know how to express emotion in public – exactly the oddball I'd imagined from his songs (though I don't know his real self). For some reason, that made me happy. The pure, unadorned, almost stupidly honest live performance of this band, completely free of affectation or pretense, hit my sweet spot. Once you've tasted this, it's scary how much more Weezer's music seems likely to draw you in, isn't it? Hoshina Yoshihiro

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See also

• Weezer concert: 10/22/1996
• Weezer concert: 10/25/1996
• Category:Rivers Cuomo Interviews